I had to look that one up. It is sailor style for sure but has a side opening. What I had in mind was a front flap opening so t here is more of an almost inverted corset structure around the waistline such as https://www.folkwear.com/products/229-sailor-pants?
I like the idea of a jumpsuit but always worry about toilet access. I’m not great with lots of buttons. I did see the charm Rosie jumpsuit has a zip down the front (hidden behind a placket) but I am sure there must be others.
haha I read that thread on peeing in space a few weeks ago, and that lead me to read the author's Lady Astronaut series. Just finished the third book, very much enjoying. She also has a instagram account, elsiewants, where she shares videos of her cat, Elsie, using augmentative interspecies communication buttons. These videos have blown my mind. :)
Thanks so much for posting this, I wish more high-end RTW companies would release a sewing pattern for their most popular item. Also I have a preference for those types of patterns because you know the designer has had much more opportunity to test and refine the draft. I'm going to get these asap because even just the lower part alone has potential for a cigarette pants pattern.
I really like the approach. I’m particularly looking forward to the sailor pants as I fell in love with velvety cleopatra’s version and it gave me the confidence to try making trousers and use tdco.
Yay! So happy to hear that, thank you and thanks to Velvety Cleopatra. Truly when I first realized it was possible to fit trousers with body neutrality I was very surprised because that just seemed so weird after doing all those low flat topsy turvy butt adjustments plus knocked knees etc.
Working on it right now! Will let you know when it is ready but it has already blown through every deadline that I have set so far so I stopped thinking about a specific date for my own sanity.
I could do pre-orders, maybe I am old-fashioned but I am not a fan of these types of things so much myself. Do you need a written guide right now? Do you have the Threads magazine article by any chance?
My recommendation is Betzina Vogue 1411. It has all kinds of fancy seaming BUT comes with a one piece front for fitting. I've been making the wider version with the plain front for years--it is a truly great pattern.
Interesting, I did read that Sandra Betzina had a professional pattern maker in SF draft the Vogue patterns she designed. I would love to find some wool ponte knit.
I am so happy with this long term plan— more than I can tell you Ruth. I would love a jumpsuit— I quite like Bianca from closet core but I don’t know anything in terms of what size it goes up to etc.
That's great to know. I need to do more research on jumpsuits. With jumpsuits, essentially the entire top is the "waistband" so I am wondering if that would need to wait until we tackle bodice fitting?
I'm excited about the next #MPWM! This is a totally separate thing, but I recently got a big box of vintage patterns from my neighbor, and ALL of the women's pants patterns have back zippers. I have never in my life had pants with a zipper in the back. Obviously this was really a thing, at least with home-sewn pants through the early 70s. I'm curious about why. Was it a fitting thing?
That is such an interesting question. I wonder if it was that a front fly is coded as more 'masculine' or to keep the look of the front more pristine. I know in couture the openings to get in and out of the garment are often elaborately concealed.
I just read this interesting history of the zipper, which has two clues about why the zipper was in the back. "In the 1920s and 1930s, they were frowned upon… especially in women’s clothing. This was because they allowed one to undress more quickly and, therefore, supposedly encouraged sexual activity." and "A current review of this pattern raises questions as to why only women’s clothing has a zipper on the back. Esthetic reasons can be given — after all, this type of back closure allows the garment to have an uninterrupted front, something especially interesting in thin or tight fabrics. But another possible reading is that back zippers exist only in women’s clothing because of the idea that a woman only goes from her parents’ house to her husband’s (as she needs help to dress and undress)."
I did a lot of sewing in the 60s as a teen and just didn't like the look of a front zip unless we were talking dungarees. And the back zip felt decadent in a good way - sleek hips! Maybe I was naive, but sleek had nothing to do with sex, tho the inverse might be true.
I have read that side seam zippers were avoided because of the difficulty in inserting them in the hip curve, but that's usually where I put them if I don't want a fly.
Zipper technology has advanced too. Maybe older zippers WERE a lot harder to put in the side seam. I'm making my daughter a pair of pants from a 1975 pattern, with a fly front. The pattern calls for an 11-inch "trouser zipper" which you then cut down. I only had a 6-inch jeans zipper (well, truthfully, I have hundreds of zippers, but shockingly few metal fly zippers, and certainly not an 11-inch one). I looked in a vintage (1969) sewing instruction book I have, and that said that zippers for fly fronts ONLY come in 11 inches. So that's why the pattern called for an 11-inch zipper. (The 1969 book also gives the fly-zip instructions in the "sewing for children" chapter and says they are "appropriate for pants for little boys.")
Lisa and I had a lovely meet up this afternoon. She is new to TDCO and we went through the fundamentals of the method, how to set up the Fremantle pants
pattern, and got the Pant back drawn out on toile fabric.
Would the merchant and mills quinn pant be a sailor pants? I have been eyeing those for a while
I had to look that one up. It is sailor style for sure but has a side opening. What I had in mind was a front flap opening so t here is more of an almost inverted corset structure around the waistline such as https://www.folkwear.com/products/229-sailor-pants?
That one is great for a button fly though.
What a fascinating set of patterns. You have introduced me to something new thank you.
So many patterns, such little time!
Jumpsuits yes, but also overalls with a front bib and straps. Think Ready to Sew Partner Overalls and Merchant and mills Harlene overalls.
Overalls are surprisingly popular! I need to try them!
Hi Ruth. Could we possibly explore overalls as well please ?
Absolutely! Are you thinking like jumpsuits?
I like the idea of a jumpsuit but always worry about toilet access. I’m not great with lots of buttons. I did see the charm Rosie jumpsuit has a zip down the front (hidden behind a placket) but I am sure there must be others.
That sounds really cool, I’m with you about the toilet conundrum, I just read a long thread about how astronauts pee in space
haha I read that thread on peeing in space a few weeks ago, and that lead me to read the author's Lady Astronaut series. Just finished the third book, very much enjoying. She also has a instagram account, elsiewants, where she shares videos of her cat, Elsie, using augmentative interspecies communication buttons. These videos have blown my mind. :)
off to check it out...!
This company has an interesting approach:
https://weareleim.com/collections/vendors?q=MeMadeLeim
They did a video of getting in and out. 😆 I like the idea but I’d need to wear something underneath so I don’t think the style is for me.
Thanks so much for posting this, I wish more high-end RTW companies would release a sewing pattern for their most popular item. Also I have a preference for those types of patterns because you know the designer has had much more opportunity to test and refine the draft. I'm going to get these asap because even just the lower part alone has potential for a cigarette pants pattern.
There is a second sewing pattern with a slightly different style.
Overalls
I really like the approach. I’m particularly looking forward to the sailor pants as I fell in love with velvety cleopatra’s version and it gave me the confidence to try making trousers and use tdco.
Yay! So happy to hear that, thank you and thanks to Velvety Cleopatra. Truly when I first realized it was possible to fit trousers with body neutrality I was very surprised because that just seemed so weird after doing all those low flat topsy turvy butt adjustments plus knocked knees etc.
Any idea when the book will be available?
Working on it right now! Will let you know when it is ready but it has already blown through every deadline that I have set so far so I stopped thinking about a specific date for my own sanity.
ah! so pre-orders are still pre-orders?
I could do pre-orders, maybe I am old-fashioned but I am not a fan of these types of things so much myself. Do you need a written guide right now? Do you have the Threads magazine article by any chance?
Really keen for the ponte pants side quest.
HIghly recommend the pant pattern of V1665 for a Ponte pant
My recommendation is Betzina Vogue 1411. It has all kinds of fancy seaming BUT comes with a one piece front for fitting. I've been making the wider version with the plain front for years--it is a truly great pattern.
Interesting, I did read that Sandra Betzina had a professional pattern maker in SF draft the Vogue patterns she designed. I would love to find some wool ponte knit.
The Fabric Store have some, but only in black: https://wearethefabricstore.com/products/heavyweight-merino-ponte-black?_pos=1&_sid=387a08d96&_ss=r
OMG thank you!
I am so happy with this long term plan— more than I can tell you Ruth. I would love a jumpsuit— I quite like Bianca from closet core but I don’t know anything in terms of what size it goes up to etc.
That's great to know. I need to do more research on jumpsuits. With jumpsuits, essentially the entire top is the "waistband" so I am wondering if that would need to wait until we tackle bodice fitting?
I'm excited about the next #MPWM! This is a totally separate thing, but I recently got a big box of vintage patterns from my neighbor, and ALL of the women's pants patterns have back zippers. I have never in my life had pants with a zipper in the back. Obviously this was really a thing, at least with home-sewn pants through the early 70s. I'm curious about why. Was it a fitting thing?
That is such an interesting question. I wonder if it was that a front fly is coded as more 'masculine' or to keep the look of the front more pristine. I know in couture the openings to get in and out of the garment are often elaborately concealed.
I just read this interesting history of the zipper, which has two clues about why the zipper was in the back. "In the 1920s and 1930s, they were frowned upon… especially in women’s clothing. This was because they allowed one to undress more quickly and, therefore, supposedly encouraged sexual activity." and "A current review of this pattern raises questions as to why only women’s clothing has a zipper on the back. Esthetic reasons can be given — after all, this type of back closure allows the garment to have an uninterrupted front, something especially interesting in thin or tight fabrics. But another possible reading is that back zippers exist only in women’s clothing because of the idea that a woman only goes from her parents’ house to her husband’s (as she needs help to dress and undress)."
article: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2023-11-17/why-only-womens-clothing-has-a-zipper-on-the-back-the-birth-of-a-provocative-invention-that-changed-our-way-of-dressing.html
Wow, thanks for sharing that! Makes me appreciate how much things have changed!
I know, me too! I can dress myself, thanks to modern zippers!
I did a lot of sewing in the 60s as a teen and just didn't like the look of a front zip unless we were talking dungarees. And the back zip felt decadent in a good way - sleek hips! Maybe I was naive, but sleek had nothing to do with sex, tho the inverse might be true.
That is so cool! Sleek style is forever, it knows no limit!
I have read that side seam zippers were avoided because of the difficulty in inserting them in the hip curve, but that's usually where I put them if I don't want a fly.
Zipper technology has advanced too. Maybe older zippers WERE a lot harder to put in the side seam. I'm making my daughter a pair of pants from a 1975 pattern, with a fly front. The pattern calls for an 11-inch "trouser zipper" which you then cut down. I only had a 6-inch jeans zipper (well, truthfully, I have hundreds of zippers, but shockingly few metal fly zippers, and certainly not an 11-inch one). I looked in a vintage (1969) sewing instruction book I have, and that said that zippers for fly fronts ONLY come in 11 inches. So that's why the pattern called for an 11-inch zipper. (The 1969 book also gives the fly-zip instructions in the "sewing for children" chapter and says they are "appropriate for pants for little boys.")
Fascinating stuff! I see vintage zippers all the time in the thrift store but I am wary of using them.
Lisa and I had a lovely meet up this afternoon. She is new to TDCO and we went through the fundamentals of the method, how to set up the Fremantle pants
pattern, and got the Pant back drawn out on toile fabric.
So much fun and very satisfying!
Wow, that is so completely awesome. You rock!
Friday pattern company have brought out a no side seam pattern - the flaneur pants. 63” hip although I do really like the ready to sew pleat pants with no side seam. 60” hip. https://fridaypatterncompany.com/products/flaneur-pants-pdf-pattern
https://readytosew.fr/en/shop-womens-sewing-patterns/48-pleat-asymetrical-pants.html