This is very helpful, thank you! So, I am pretty new here and haven’t made any pants with you yet. I just finished a pair of Helene Jeans by Anna Allen and they have been a very interesting make. I definitely am on the side of “would rather have tighter fitting pants than not” (lol, I don’t do squats ONLY for health reasons 😉), and yet, reading this article it makes me wonder if that particular pant is actually just drafted for a more relaxed fit and that I would be asking the fabric to do things it doesn’t want to, if seen to be more form fitting. Anyway, it has been an interesting process, also trying to apply my best understanding of TDCO for the first time on these Helene jeans. I got your book and am ready to delve into it.
Thank you! Anna Allen makes great patterns, I think the Helene jeans are selvedge jeans is that correct? So the sides are useful to establish overall circumference and all the fitting adjustments take place in the center (crotch and inseam) which is more bias. This post on different styles of pants and how they make use of different fabric grains may be useful. https://ithacamaven.substack.com/p/everyone-is-on-the-spectrum
LOL, I remember when influencer posterior photos started popping up on my social media feed, I was fascinated. Check out Michaela Stark, a performance artist who uses body manipulation.
Or is it more precision, the good fit sweet spot of enough fabric traveling from the side seam to butt apex, waistband to butt apex (with assorted shaping along the way), the butt apex to CB rise (and the could be bias ? for "give"), and the butt apex to underneath the cheeks to the top of the leg, which can have the bias of the CB rise curve and the bias of the inseam curve to influence the shaping.
BTW hope you are not disappointed my response did not address your original question about tension. Obviously the closer the fit, the more lateral tension there is on the fabric. Even with a looser fit, tension is still important, excess lateral tension will sag, the nature of the drag lines depending on the positions where the fabric is suspended. But the key is how the tension is balanced with the other parts of the pant, aka the similarities between pant architecture and a tensegrity structure!
When you think about it like this you can appreciate there are a lot of variables! That is why the method has to be empirical rather than measure variables or even worry about them. There are people who have no idea about why the combo of the fitted waistband and half-pant is so much more effective than either one alone and who could not care less about these issues but practically realize this is the easiest way to make pants that fit.
This is very helpful, thank you! So, I am pretty new here and haven’t made any pants with you yet. I just finished a pair of Helene Jeans by Anna Allen and they have been a very interesting make. I definitely am on the side of “would rather have tighter fitting pants than not” (lol, I don’t do squats ONLY for health reasons 😉), and yet, reading this article it makes me wonder if that particular pant is actually just drafted for a more relaxed fit and that I would be asking the fabric to do things it doesn’t want to, if seen to be more form fitting. Anyway, it has been an interesting process, also trying to apply my best understanding of TDCO for the first time on these Helene jeans. I got your book and am ready to delve into it.
Thank you! Anna Allen makes great patterns, I think the Helene jeans are selvedge jeans is that correct? So the sides are useful to establish overall circumference and all the fitting adjustments take place in the center (crotch and inseam) which is more bias. This post on different styles of pants and how they make use of different fabric grains may be useful. https://ithacamaven.substack.com/p/everyone-is-on-the-spectrum
Super! Thank you so much!!!
I love Monty Don-- and his trews ARE always really baggy!
Baggy or billowy?
Generous😏
Not a question but a comment.
(I'm still laughing at your comment about "not having enough butt photos". )
We all need more butt photos.
The little arrows with the direction of fabric travel has been most helpful in the toggle between anatomical shape and pattern shape.
Aside: My pattern printing is late, nothing is cut out and I'm traveling this weekend. Hope to look in on the zoom sessions, if schedule permits.
Good luck everyone.
LOL, I remember when influencer posterior photos started popping up on my social media feed, I was fascinated. Check out Michaela Stark, a performance artist who uses body manipulation.
So does a tight pair of pants require tension?
Or is it more precision, the good fit sweet spot of enough fabric traveling from the side seam to butt apex, waistband to butt apex (with assorted shaping along the way), the butt apex to CB rise (and the could be bias ? for "give"), and the butt apex to underneath the cheeks to the top of the leg, which can have the bias of the CB rise curve and the bias of the inseam curve to influence the shaping.
Am I thinking about this the right way?
BTW hope you are not disappointed my response did not address your original question about tension. Obviously the closer the fit, the more lateral tension there is on the fabric. Even with a looser fit, tension is still important, excess lateral tension will sag, the nature of the drag lines depending on the positions where the fabric is suspended. But the key is how the tension is balanced with the other parts of the pant, aka the similarities between pant architecture and a tensegrity structure!
https://ithacamaven.substack.com/p/for-the-love-of-pants-part-2
No worries.
When you think about it like this you can appreciate there are a lot of variables! That is why the method has to be empirical rather than measure variables or even worry about them. There are people who have no idea about why the combo of the fitted waistband and half-pant is so much more effective than either one alone and who could not care less about these issues but practically realize this is the easiest way to make pants that fit.